From a land down under
Centrum catches-up with Rory Grant whose career down under has just led him to lead the business development team at Gilbert + Tobin, a top-tier Australian law firm he’s had his eye on for a while.
You moved to Australia mid-pandemic. Clearly both an exciting and a stressful time. Has it lived up to expectations?
I don’t think I really knew what to expect. I’d been to Australia over the winter of 2019-2020, but this was my first time for work. It’s certainly taken a lot of adjusting. Some of the cliches about the country are true; others don’t really live up to expectations – it’s not always sunny, when it rains it pours and, unfortunately, kids don’t ride kangaroos to school! I’ve loved my time here so far. This country has an extreme mix of cultures, summers are hot (too hot sometimes) and if you like an outdoor lifestyle there’s plenty to do and lots with which to get involved
Shortly after your relocated you wrote for ‘Centrum’ about how a candidate wishing to take their career international can best prepare. Is there anything you’d now add to that advice?
I think I referenced the need to do your research when I wrote that piece. That still stands as the most important requirement in my eyes. Whether you’re looking at Australia or elsewhere make sure you understand the businesses you have your eyes on - think about their structure and who is who across the team you’d ideally work within.
Some countries will set limitations around how long you can work and remain in the country, and much of that is determined by your skillset and the requirement for skills in that country. Don’t get caught out by discovering after the fact that the international move you had in mind might not be permanent.
Find people that have made an international move to the country you’re interested in and talk to them - get as much advice from them as possible.
And international secondments across offices in the legal sector seem to be more common these days. If you can move abroad temporarily with your current firm, or to a best friend’s firm, that could be an easier option than attempting to do it alone.
If you’re going it alone, make contact with a firm and talk to them about opportunities or speak to someone that has made the move and get a recommendation for which recruiter is likely to be in the best position to assist you in exploring your options. I'm happy to talk with anyone that's thinking of making an international move.
How is business in Australia fairing now (we hope) the worst of Covid may have passed?
It’s not too bad and, generally, the country has done a very good job of keeping the virus at bay. I haven’t seen a major impact across the professional service industry
Borders were closed for a long time and clearly the world is not out of the woods, but the country is now open for Australians looking to leave the country and for those coming in on certain visas (including work visas). The impact of this is that we’re likely to see more Australians heading abroad (particularly to the UK and the US) taking up new positions.
You’ve recently moved firms and joined Gilbert + Tobin (G+T). What prompted that?
G+T is a great business – a top tier firm in Australia that is also well respected globally. It’s a firm that as an outsider (even from the UK) I looked at and got the sense that it had an innovative streak and was making things happen in the Australian market.
It’s very young within the global legal market, having only been around for only 33 years but it’s come a long way. It’s a heavy hitter across many industries and practice areas. When the opportunity came up to discuss how I might lead the BD team and help the firm develop, it was a conversation I couldn’t refuse.
I’m very happy to now be a part of that firm and to work with a really terrific and motivated BD team.
I guess you’ve been in Australia long enough to have formed certain views. How does working in a law firm there differ from the UK, if indeed it does?
A lot of things are similar - BD and marketing teams are structured in a similar way and the markets also move in a similarly.
The one difference to me is the focus given to client development and business opportunity. The market is naturally smaller than the UK, so the energy and direction of BD teams are closely aligned to the largest clients in the market. It’s more of a laser focus compared to a broader focus that sometimes occurs in the UK - again something that probably occurs because the market is larger.
“Gilbert + Tobin is a great business – a top tier firm in Australia, well respected globally. It’s a firm that as an outsider I looked at and got the sense that it had an innovative streak and was making things happen. It’s a heavy hitter across many industries and practice areas so, when the opportunity came up to discuss how I might lead the BD team, it was a conversation I couldn’t refuse.”
What about differences within business cultures? And we’re, of course, told Aussies have a far healthier work-life balance than their British or American “cousins”?
The business and work cultures are very similar. If you’re working in professional services in Australia you’re working in a similar way to the UK.
There is a great work life balance that kicks-in at the end of the working day or the weekend arrives. I think that boils down to the numerous opportunities for how to spend leisure time. If you enjoy a warmer climate, it’s obviously much easier to spend time outside. Often that’s at the beach, in the pool, on the water somewhere - or doing some kind of sport. There’s something here for everyone.
Gilbert + Tobin look to be very conscious when it comes to issues such as pro-bono work, supporting important causes, and fostering principles of good citizenship? This is all really important not just to this issue of ‘Centrum’ but ESG is also the theme of the PSMG annual conference in April.
The Australian and UK markets are similar in this area. I feel ESG is an important issue for all businesses coming out of the past two years in particular - it’s no longer a “nice to have”. All businesses, including professional services, are going to be under great scrutiny from consumers, clients, employees, and other stakeholders.
There’s much talk here (including across this issue) about talent shortages and, as-result of that, opportunities. It seems, though, this means marketing and BD professionals will have to be clear - with themselves, head-hunters and employees - about what they really want for a next move?
Absolutely. In my opinion, you have two options - wait for someone to approach you and slot in with that role because it’s an easy move, or proactively talk to businesses, ask questions of that business and make sure they are able to provide an environment that meets the standards that you want to work within and make sure you’re considered in your approach.
Naturally, I’ve taken both approaches throughout my career. It gets easier to work along the second option as you build your experience and market experience.
On the subject of all-things ESG, a couple of other contributors in this issue have (politely) tackled the fact some law firms - especially at board level - are happy to “box tick” rather that get right behind it. Surely that can only continue for so long before aware clients and the younger workforce start asking questions?
I haven’t experienced that. From my experience, law firms understand it’s a serious issue they have to address and, as I said, something both employees and clients want to see happen.
And, finally, what’s the best thing about pursuing a professional services BD career in Australia? And what aspects might you perhaps be less keen on - and will possibly set out to change?
Making an international move anywhere is a challenge. If you tackle it in the right way, it acts as an extremely positive experience to reinforce and build skills and character.
Taking my career to Australia has allowed me to test my skillset in a similar market and with a similar culture, but I’ve still had to adapt and make changes to how I approach elements of my work and some cultural differences along the way. I’ve certainly gained skills and perspectives that I would only gain from working in this market. Gaining international experience has to be viewed as a plus for any employer because you’re able to bring a different perspective and test the norms.
I don’t think there is much I’d change right now. My focus this year is building a community within my team and helping everyone in that team develop along the way. I’m focussed on building the best BD team in Australia.