In Conversation with…
Clive Garfield
PSMG annual conference keynote, Clive Garfield, on the critical importance of 'culture' within organisations, moving beyond the misconception of it being merely a soft, optional element; making tough decisions easier; the threat when organisational trust is low, and why firms ahead of the cultural curve as the ones who’ll steal the competitive march.
In Conversation with…
Clive Garfield
PSMG annual conference keynote, Clive Garfield, on the critical importance of 'culture' within organisations, moving beyond the misconception of it being merely a soft, optional element; making tough decisions easier; the threat when organisational trust is low, and why firms ahead of the cultural curve as the ones who’ll steal the competitive march.
Q. You’re a keynote at this year’s PSMG annual conference, which is focussed on all things change, transformation and culture. What are the issues you’re most excited about addressing with delegates and other speakers.
It goes without saying we are confronted with various cultural obstacles amidst worldwide unpredictability, which encompasses the effects of a workforce spanning multiple generations and the advent of novel technologies. It’s imperative for each of us to cultivate an enhanced awareness of ourselves, adopt a steadfast stance on responsibility, and recognise and actively engage in shaping the business cultures within our organisations. Furthermore, it’s essential to integrate this culture deeply into the very fabric of the firms we are part of. The perception of culture must evolve; it is a critical instrument for advancement and business propulsion, far removed from being merely an optional, soft aspect of our professional environments.
Q. The conference has a strapline of ‘Change is Inevitable – how you prepare for it is not”. Do you feel we’ve reached something of a tipping point in how we view the myriad issues surrounding cultural change?
Change is the only certainty in business these days. I believe (and hope) senior leaders are becoming more aware of the role it plays and what it says about a business, particularly when it comes to managing non-financial risk. The tipping point is how that awareness translates into behaviours below the Board and executive committee level. Senior leaders play a crucial role in establishing the appropriate tone at the top, yet it’s increasingly evident that it is front line managers who truly establish the cultural standards within their teams and shape the behaviours that become normalised. Consequently, all managers within an organisation wield significant influence.
We’re getting there but it still needs a big push to make all managers and people supervisors feel accountable for culture and to ensure they live the firm’s values in the same way in which we expect from those at the very top.
Q. You’ve run hundreds of culture focus groups. Why must organisations deep dive into culture beyond mere data collection?
Data collection and survey analysis play a crucial role in pinpointing the specific areas that need to be addressed. They serve as navigational tools, directing us toward the pertinent questions that should be posed. To delve deeper into the underlying issues, interactive culture focus groups are invaluable.
Within these groups I facilitate an in-depth exploration of the core elements at play and uncover what truly motivates and influences behaviour. By engaging with focus groups, we’re able to gather rich, qualitative data. This type of information is comprehensive and nuanced, offering insights that go beyond what can be quantified to paint a more detailed picture of the situation at hand.
Findings are one thing, but focus groups are equally - and in some ways more importantly - a way to build engagement and I consider engagement to be the keystone to building a better culture within firms. When leadership initiates focus groups, it sends a powerful message to the workforce. It signals a commitment to nurturing a positive culture, a willingness to consider employee perspectives, and an openness to dialogue. Moreover, by providing feedback after these sessions, leaders can effectively demonstrate they are not just passively listening but actively responding to employees' input. There is arguably no more effective method for promoting a sense of engagement among employees than by clearly showing their voices are being acknowledged and valued.
I’ll give you an example. I asked one attendee ‘do you know why you’re here?’ at the start of a focus group. Their reply was ‘somebody somewhere cares enough to ask me what I think’. Multiply that and you can have the bedrock for real cultural transformation throughout your organisation.
Q. This seems such a wide-ranging issue, everything from inclusion and respect to working more effectively with clients; cultural flaws such as micromanagement to – as I heard culture described recently – how we feel about Monday morning on a Sunday night. Where do you start?
When initiating training sessions and focus groups, especially those aimed at addressing organisational culture, it's essential to begin with a clear understanding of the current environment and issues. This involves a comprehensive due diligence process that includes reviewing relevant data and engaging in discussions with senior leaders to gain insights into the organisation's dynamics. This preparatory work is crucial as it informs me about the specific cultural aspects that need to be addressed, such as inclusion, respect, and management practices.
The core of any training session or focus group lies in the interaction between the participants. The real value emerges when employees share their diverse perspectives, experiences, and feelings. This exchange not only raises awareness of the various viewpoints but also fosters empathy and understanding among colleagues. It's through this dialogue participants can begin to see the difference between perception and reality, a concept that is often summarised by the quote: "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." This highlights the subjective nature of our experiences and underscores the importance of open communication in bridging the gap between how things are perceived and how they are.
Furthermore, the ultimate measure of success is the behavioural change that occurs once participants return to daily routines. The goal is for them to apply what they've learned and to make positive changes in their interactions with colleagues and clients. This transformation is often gradual and may require ongoing support and reinforcement. However, it's these incremental changes in behaviour that collectively contribute to a shift in the organisation's culture.
Q. I’ve read comment pieces recently advocating a strong workplace culture should be every bit part of an organisation’s risk management as other threats. This seems logical but is ‘culture’ still viewed as something ethereal?
Culture is an intangible concept and leaders frequently attempt to quantify in order to manage it, a task that is not easily accomplished. Without the ability to measure, engaging leaders in cultural initiatives can prove a formidable challenge. At its core, culture is synonymous with the organisation itself. It permeates every action taken throughout the day and moulds every facet of one's responsibilities.
At times, a shift in terminology can be beneficial. By referring to 'culture' as 'ways of working', or ‘how do we manage culture risk’, the concept becomes more tangible. Questions such as how risk, controls, policies, and employees influence daily operations encapsulate what culture entails, yet this framing often makes it more comprehensible.
Q. James Hennessy of the NY Fed said he wonders why firms haven't started to govern culture more systematically, adding many have departments addressing all kinds of other risks. Do you see a change happening amongst those with whom you work?
It's a slow process. I thought societal pressures and incidents might move the dial quicker but it still often takes regulatory intervention and clear expectations to move that dial. Firms at the forefront will look at culture proactively. They’re keen to embrace culture because it attracts and helps retain talent, helps fulfil the potential of employees and has a positive impact on the overall business.
It is these firms who will invariably be ahead of the cultural curve. They have much less work to do as they nip any issues spiralling from negative cultural themes in the bud before they become entrenched in a ‘that’s the way we do things around here’.
Organisations that proactively manage their culture, instead of waiting for an incident to occur before addressing cultural issues, are more likely to develop a deeper and more effective understanding of their organisational culture. This proactive approach can significantly contribute to reducing the likelihood of conduct-related incidents.
In an era where the intangible assets of a firm, such as culture, are becoming increasingly pivotal to success, it is imperative that we do not remain idle and instead be the change, and lead by example.
“There is no greater way to promote engagement than showing employees they are being listened to. One of the most foundational aspects of building a strong organisational culture is engagement. Employees simply want to be heard, and know they are being listened to.”
“There is no greater way to promote engagement than showing employees they are being listened to. One of the most foundational aspects of building a strong organisational culture is engagement. Employees simply want to be heard, and know they are being listened to.”
Q. You wrote last year about the key questions for boards when assessing culture strategy. Is this changing? And are clients now increasingly interested in how a firm behaves beyond the transactional.
I hope so. Having a well-articulated cultural strategy can be an efficient and effective way of giving employees a clear goal and purpose. There are still many firms where the cultural strategy isn’t well known beyond the boardroom Embedding that strategy can be an incredibly efficient way of delivering culture strength and change.
All too often firms, when they point to culture strategy, are really pointing to a collection of activities that have been retrospectively cobbled together. It’s better to start a blank sheet with a more holistic approach to the key elements of culture and to establish a clear view on what exactly the cultural objectives are we are trying to meet.
Q. It seems some organisations are still struggling with the post-pandemic shift to hybrid working and siloed workforces. Presumably this is a threat to workplace culture?
The threat comes where organisational trust is low and where any change is viewed with suspicion. Where a firm has a strong cultural bedrock any change can present an opportunity, especially with respect to inclusion and attracting talent.
If the hybrid approach is adopted with clarity, trust, and empowerment as its core principles, it’s more likely to provide the advantages of social and relational connections, along with the added benefits of working remotely.
Q. There are numerous challenges facing those responsible for workplace culture on macro and micro levels and, let’s be honest, for many of us the world seems a rather uncertain (and, indeed, a scary) place. I imagine that makes what we all do and how we all behave as individuals essential?
Absolutely - the importance of being adaptable is highlighted in our current environment. As change accelerates, it increases stress and worry among employees. The behaviour of each person has a ripple effect throughout the organisation, and this effect is especially strong when exhibited by leaders. In such times, there is a critical need for genuine role models.
Q. That takes us to things such as soft skills and emotional intelligence. Words such as kindness and empathy might have traditionally been seen as weaknesses in business, but surely these can be marks of strength and confidence and something that can make a difference beyond the confines of the merely transactional?
Far from being considered vulnerabilities, kindness and empathy signify a sense of self-assurance and strength. And these characteristics are ever more needed to cultivate a workplace atmosphere built on the foundations of trust and esteem. As we discussed earlier with respect to focus groups, the moment employees perceive they are appreciated and their perspectives are being listed to, their inclination towards engagement, motivation, and loyalty towards their employer intensifies. This is much more likely to contribute to motivated employees, higher business productivity and propel the business towards its goals.
Q. Finally, what do you want those attending the PSMG annual conference 2024 to come away with? And what makes you feel positive about the future?
There are two things. Firstly, use this time to reflect on your own behaviours, values and working practices and that of your teams and organisations. And in engaging with others during the conference we can increase our self-awareness. All of this you can then deploy to achieve better outcomes and harness your own potential and that of those around you.
And finally, we must accentuate the positive. We must never underestimate the impact we can make on others through frequent conversations - and through our behaviours - every day. If we can keep that momentum then hopefully more leaders and more employees will understand the importance of building and maintaining a strong culture in an ever more demanding world and workplace.
“What we should be talking about with culture is how we fulfil the potential of our employees within the conditions and environment in which we’re asking them to work. This will in turn lead to success. It doesn’t mean we don’t make the tough decisions – it makes the tough decisions easier.”
“What we should be talking about with culture is how we fulfil the potential of our employees within the conditions and environment in which we’re asking them to work. This will in turn lead to success. It doesn’t mean we don’t make the tough decisions – it makes the tough decisions easier.”
Snap Shot
2019 - Executive Director Allen & Overy 2016 - 2019 Executive Director, Conduct Risk and Strategy JP Morgan Chase & Co 2013 - 2016 Executive Director, International Regulatory Risk JP Morgan Chase & Co
2009 - 2013 Vice President, Credit Product Control JP Morgan Chase & Co
2007 – 2009 FX Manager Product Control Lehman Brothers
2004 – 2007 Commodities Product Control Deutsche Bank
Getting to Know You
Best bit of advice you’ve been given?
Be yourself.
Best bit of advice you’d give someone at the start of their career?
Enjoy your job and find a role that aligns with your interests and passions. And look after yourself – both in the mental and physical sense.
What led you to this career?
I started in accountancy and then moved into finance roles for a number of global banks. My fascination with human behaviour and interpersonal dynamics was a constant though and led me to seize the chance to focus solely on culture and conduct within my most recent banking position. Then, just over five years ago, I moved to the newly formed A&O Consulting, known now as Consulting by A&O Shearman. I haven’t looked back.
Best holiday destination?
It’s dependent on the time of year. For skiing, it has to be Austria; for the food, it has to be Crete; and for a traditional summer holiday it has to be Norfolk, and specifically Holkham beach.
Favourite pastime?
Cycling and swimming. Anything sports related. I also have an allotment and, although I have very little time to give to it, I steadfastly refuse to give it up – I’ll try and do better on that this year.
Click here to read an interview with PwC’s Alex Liddle who will chair this year’s PSMG Conference